ITW Interview: The DeValera Deception - Michael and Patrick McMenamin

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Recently, I sat down with the father and son writing team of Michael and Patrick McMenamin to talk about their debut novel, The Valera Deception.

How did you come up with the idea of The De Valera Deception?

MICHAEL: I'm a Winston Churchill biographer and scholar, and I've always had an interest in Irish history as well. Patrick is a Phi Beta Kappa history major who specialized in 19th and 20th century European history, so we both have an interest in the period where our thrillers occur. For years, I had talked about writing a thriller series set in Churchill's "Wilderness Years" from 1929 to 1939. I wanted the first book, set in 1929, to revolve around two historical facts: Churchill's three-month holiday that summer in North America while at the same time the Graf Zeppelin was making its historical round the world airship flight sponsored by the Hearst media empire.




PATRICK: The rest we sort of pieced together over family dinners whenever we visited each other. (I think it's fair to say we became a bit of a nuisance at the dinner table for the rest of the family.) We were both familiar with Weimar Germany's secret military alliance with the USSR during the 1920s which enabled Germany to evade the Versailles Treaty's limits on arms. This is years before Hitler assumed power. Germany developed in Russia the most modern weapons systems in Europe--planes, tanks, artillery, poison gas--and the Allies were none the wiser. The goal of the alliance was to invade Poland and divide it between them. That's all historical fact.




MICHAEL: And that's how we were able to work in the Irish angle, which forms the core of our story. We created a conspiracy of arms makers and financiers backing this real-life military alliance. If there was an invasion of Poland, they would want to distract Britain from getting involved in a general European conflict. So, they determined to finance an IRA coup d'état in the new Irish Free State which would inevitably lead to war with Northern Ireland and Britain. De Valera, for his own reasons, was happy to help.




How does Churchill fit in?

PATRICK: When MI-6 hears rumors of the IRA arms deal brewing in America as a necessary prelude to the coup d'état, the new British Prime Minister asks the newly out-of-office Churchill to accompany a team of MI-6 agents to America and use the information they assemble to persuade President Hoover to stop the arms deal. Churchill agrees but he mistrusts MI-6 and assembles his own team which includes Bourke Cockran, Jr., a former US Army counterintelligence officer (and the fictional son of Churchill's real-life Irish-American political mentor) and Mattie McGary, a Hearst photojournalist (and Churchill's fictional god-daughter). While Churchill travels by private rail car across Canada, Cockran and Mattie travel across America--at first apart and then together--to gather at considerable peril the information Churchill needs to persuade President Hoover to intervene and stop the arms from reaching the IRA. And as they do that, the Graf Zeppelin, on its round the world flight, is drawing ever closer to California carrying gold bearer bonds to complete the IRA's arms purchase...




I myself have dozens of books by and about Churchill on my shelves at home. How do you get a new take on such a well-documented life?

MICHAEL: Well, the short answer is that we get a "new take" because we make it all up. The long answer is more complicated.




PATRICK: I'll take the short answer. My Dad enjoys the long ones. We try and do what Ken Follett did in The Man From St. Petersburg, where Churchill served as the catalyst who enlists the protagonists to foil an anarchist plot in 1914 to assassinate a Russian diplomat and disrupt a budding English-Russian alliance. We use Churchill the same way - launching the protagonists on their adventure and pulling strings along the way both behind the scenes and sometimes in them.




MICHAEL: The long answer is that while Churchill probably has the most-documented life of any historical figure, most people don't know much about him beyond his saving the world in 1940 when England stood alone against the Nazis.

Churchill is in many ways a perfect historical character around which to craft period thrillers. He had a remarkably adventure-filled life. He was a fencing champion in prep school, a championship polo player in the Army and a seaplane pilot in the early, peril-filled days of flight in 1910. In between, he was a much decorated war hero in bloody battles on the Afghan-Indian border and in the Sudan. In the Boer war in South Africa, he was nominated by his commanding officer for the Victoria Cross, Britain's highest military honor. He also escaped from a Boer prisoner of war camp and made his way to freedom over hundreds of miles of enemy territory. During the Great War, while other politicians safely abed sent millions of young men to their death, Winston was with his troops in the trenches in the bloody Ypres salient daily risking death himself.

So how we get a new take on Churchill is to create a plot based on something that might have happened in the 30s; toss him into the middle of it; and ask "What would Winston do?" Which, as Patrick noted, is just what Follett did in The Man From St. Petersburg.




Tolstoy, of course, seems to have done okay in blending historical and fictional characters. What are the challenges you found?

MICHAEL: Wow, Tolstoy? Keep in mind these are historical thrillers, not historical novels, so we try to keep the background accurate for our stories which otherwise never happened. One key way is to make sure your historical characters stay within themselves. To do this, I read biographies of all those with major speaking roles, e.g., Churchill, Hearst, Hitler, Hoover, De Valera, John Devoy etc. because we don't want the historical character to say or do something in a purely fictional scene that would be out of character. At the same time, we want to make sure he fills the role we have for him in the plot. Herbert Hoover, for example, would never swear, even in private, so he doesn't in our book. Similarly, the Irish revolutionary John Devoy damn well would have and his "colorful" descriptions of his arch foe De Valera are not out of character.




How do you handle Churchill's "black dog" in your book?

MICHAEL: We don't because it's a myth. Churchill did refer to periods when he was down in the dumps as a "black dog" but that was a common term in the late 19th century, one he probably first heard from his nanny. My wife (and Patrick's artist mother), Carol Breckenridge, a psychotherapist and an adjunct professor of Art Therapy, is glad you asked because she believes writers who do not understand mental illness have taken "black dog" to mean clinical depression, i.e., bi-polar disorder, which is simply not true of Churchill.

As Churchill's daughter Mary Soames once told Carol, she thinks a number of Churchill biographers "have made too big a meal" of Churchill's "black dog". When he was down, as all of us are from time to time, there was always something external as a cause, she said, and she suggest a person would have had to be almost inhuman not to have been down at these times.

In fact, Carol was so taken by my fascination with Churchill...




PATRICK: Mom would call it an obsession ...




MICHAEL: Which reminds me that Churchill hated having a monologue interrupted.... Anyway, Carol once prepared and delivered a peer-reviewed paper to the American Art Therapy Association on "The Use of Art as Therapy: How Churchill Coped" in which she demonstrates that Churchill was not bi-polar and diagnosed him in his youth as having ADD, attention-deficit disorder, which afflicts many bright young people (raise your hand, Patrick). If Churchill carried ADD into adulthood, Carol suggests that his painting (he was an undeniably gifted impressionist producing over 500 oil paintings after the age of 40) was one of his methods of coping with ADD.




Churchill's mother was born in Rochester, New York. Much of the action in The De Valera Deception takes place in the United States. Just how American was Churchill?

PATRICK: Very. To begin with, Churchill's only political and oratorical mentor was an American, Bourke Cockran, and my Dad has written a great book, Becoming Winston Churchill, about their relationship. Most of Churchill's detractors, of whom there was no shortage especially among Conservatives, referred to his American origins disparagingly, e.g., calling him a "half-breed adventurer." And Winston was a very pushy, self-promoting young man in an upper-class British culture that did not value and looked down on such traits. From WWII on, Churchill has been more revered in the US than in the UK. He still is.




Two terrific series have been written by "Charles Todd," who is in fact a mother and son writing together. What's it like for you two, father and son, to collaborate? Come on now, a straight, no-holds-barred answer.

MICHAEL: We also like the two "Charles Todd" series and I met the mother half of the team at the last ThrillerFest. More importantly, we're both big fans of the Indiana Jones films and Young Indiana Jones (a much under-rated TV series) so it's fun to write novels together in that era where Nazis are always the villains (but we have any number of good guy Germans too ) . We're having a great time. Really.


PATRICK: It's true. Honestly, we only write the books because it's fun to write them together.

MICHAEL: No-holds-barred, though. We come up with a book concept jointly...

PATRICK: Well, hang on. You said "no holds barred" and my dad is being uncharacteristically modest. I'd credit him with most of the initial inspiration for each book. I really like thrillers, but I don't read nearly as many as Dad. (Too many Sci-Fi/Fantasy books on my plate.) He really has a nose for this stuff. Once he has an idea, it gives me about five other ideas for plot lines and then we really start talking.




MICHAEL: And I try so hard not to be modest. But Patrick is correct in that I usually come up with what he calls "the initial inspiration" but I don't think we have an actual "concept" until after we bat it around. Anyway, I then do a first draft of a chapter by chapter outline, 100-130 pages. We pass it back and forth until we're satisfied. Then Patrick takes one of the major characters and drafts the chapters within that character's story arc while I do the other chapters.




PATRICK: Then we edit each other's chapters so many times, that when you read the book, you aren't able to tell which chapters were initially drafted by whom unless we tell you.




MICHAEL: Which we won't.




PATRICK: Also, we're both libertarians. Dad is a contributing editor at Reason and I'm a producer for John Stossel at Fox, so we have similar views on politics, economics and history which helps keep us on the same page. Of course, we do have disagreements. And from my perspective, Dad's training as a lawyer can make some arguments especially tedious! But the fact we have a long history together and love each other helps smooth things out.




MICHAEL: Well, I was a media defense lawyer in my previous life and dealing with journalists is no walk in the park either. But, defending them was a decent living so I have no complaints. So that and living in different cities where Patrick and I can't see our facial expressions when we talk helps. When we can't persuade each other, we typically compromise along the lines of the one who did the initial draft of a chapter usually gets the last word.




Do readers have to remember who De Valera was for the title to make sense? 

MICHAEL: As opposed to the book? No, not at all. You learn all you need to know about the underlying Irish politics--the Treaty negotiated by Churchill and Michael Collins which created the Irish Free State in 1922, the Irish Civil War in 1922-23, the IRA and De Valera later in the 20s--from characters' dialogue and internal monologue.




PATRICK: But I don't think it affects the title, no more than a Steve Berry title or most other thrillers. Once you get into the book, the title will make sense. Dad is a big fan of Robert Ludlum titles and alliteration so our first three books in the Churchill series reflect that. Ludlum fans will recognize "Deception", "Parsifal" and "Gemini" as part of Ludlum titles. Sort of an homage.




MICHAEL: It is an homage and all thriller writers owe him a huge debt. Patrick is tolerant of my Ludlum title affectation and uses this to extract what he considers to be more important concessions when we disagree.




Enigma Books is publishing The De Valera Deception. How did you find them and what's it like working with them?

MICHAEL: Actually, Enigma found us when they bought the trade paperback rights from Greenwood, then a division of Harcourt, for my 2007 Becoming Winston Churchill, The Untold Story of Young Winston and His American Mentor ("BWC") which they published in July, 2009. As I like to say, it was critically acclaimed but, alas, not best selling. As we mentioned above, Bourke Cockran was Churchill's mentor (and his mother Jennie's lover) and his fictional son is our male protagonist in the Churchill Thriller series, Archie Goodwin to Winston's Nero Wolfe.

More to the point, Enigma is a small NYC publisher which specializes in 20th century history and biography and has published nearly 50 titles since its founding in 2000. In 2008, they started an Enigma Thriller line of historical novels with three out by the time they took on BWC. I became friends with Enigma's publisher, Robert Miller, after I came to NYC quite a few times to talk about the book for events that Enigma arranged. Publishers like that in a writer.




PATRICK: So when Robert learned we had written not one but three Winston Churchill thrillers (the first two of which our agents got read--and rejected--by many well-known publishers), he offered to publish all three in hard cover over an 18 month time frame, a trilogy which takes Winston through 1932 with Hitler on the cusp of power! Clearly, Robert is a very wise man. Talk about an offer you can't refuse...

Working with Enigma has been good so far. We have a great cover design team with Josh Beatman at Brainchild Studios in NYC. We just love the De Valera cover, with the zeppelin soaring over the 1930s NYC skyline and a 50-something Churchill hovering above. Brilliant!




MICHAEL: We're the lead book on Enigma's website and it's nice to be a big fish in a small pond. Plus we've got a brand beyond our unknown names (www.winstonchurchillthrillers.com) and if our books are good enough, we hope word-of-mouth will carry us.




What's next for the future prime minister and his friend Bourke Cockran, Jr.?

PATRICK: Don't forget Hearst's favorite photojournalist and Winston's fictional god-daughter Mattie McGary. She features prominently in the series as our female protagonist.




MICHAEL: Yes, don't forget her. Patrick hates it when I do this but I channel Maureen O'Hara, Katherine Hepburn, and Karen Allen when I write Mattie's chapters and you don't want to be on wrong side of women like that. Mattie's the main character in the next book in the series, The Parsifal Pursuit (Spring, 2011). It's a blatant cribbing of the plot in Wagner's opera Parsifal where Mattie takes the traditional male role of Parsifal. She's assigned to cover an expedition to recover the "Spear of Destiny" hidden in the Austrian Alps while minions of both the Kaiser and Hitler vie to find it first. (Yes, there really is a spear of destiny which Hitler finally seized in 1938 along with the rest of Austria. It's now safely back in Vienna where I saw it last year.) At the same time, Cockran tangles with an SS protection racket in Munich whose story line eventually converges with Mattie's.




PATRICK: The next Mattie-Bourke adventure after that is The Gemini Agenda (Fall,2011) where Cockran and Mattie expose the true horror of a Eugenics movement that saw 26 US states forcibly sterilize nearly 50,000 women to advance the cause of racial purity before a pre-Hitler Germany had yet to sterilize one. And the movement was substantially financed by American capitalists, e.g., the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Institute. In fact, when Hitler came to power, he had Germany enact a eugenics law identical to the model US law. In Gemini, Mattie and Bourke uncover a conspiracy by Nazi scientists to kidnap and conduct lethal experiments upon American twins aided by elements in the Military Intelligence Division (the CIA of its day) of the US Army and funded by US industrialists.




MICHAEL: The fourth book--working title The Berghof Betrayal--is set in February, 1933 and concerns the attempted assassinations of FDR ( it really happened) and Hitler where a fake assassination attempt (rumors of one were circulating then in Berlin) staged by the SS is hijacked and turned into a real one by Hitler's enemies, some of them inside the Nazi party (yes, he had them). It's the first book in a new trilogy. Where our first trilogy is set against the backdrop of Hitler's rise to power from 1929-1932, our second trilogy will take our heroes through the summer of 1934 and the "Night of the Long Knives" when Hitler rid himself of his enemies within the Nazi party and consolidated his power.

---

Keith Raffel has held a top secret clearance to watch over CIA activities and has founded an award-winning Internet software company. Steve Berry called Keith's latest book, Smasher: A Silicon Valley Thriller, "taut, tight, and suspenseful" and said it "skillfully carries the reader triumphantly from one climax to the next."

Celebrate the Craft! - Sophie Littlefield

Sophie Littlefield -

Last year with my first Thrillerfest, and I was thrilled to be going to New York, to have a chance to visit my agent and editors and spend time in the city, but I wasn't sure what to expect from the conference itself. Frankly I wasn't sure if I was badass enough to hang with the thriller crowd, especially once I checked out the roster and saw authors i'd been reading for decades. The kick-off cocktail party was amazing; I did a lot of standing in the corner and breathing deeply, afraid I might pass out from an acute case of fan-girl-ism.

By the second day I got my wits back enough to seek out my usual ne'er-do-well cohorts and start misbehaving in the lobby. But as much as I planned to skip class and sleep until noon, there were too many sessions I couldn't bear to miss. The sessions were a great mix of industry and craft knowledge plus a few that were just plain fun, like the book tour horror stories . I also met some seasoned pros who, all these months later, are still reaching out with offers of help and knowledge. It has shamed me into trying to follow their example, and I hope that this year I will be able to be of assistance of some other newcomer who can benefit from my tiny newbie store of knowledge.

Because of the timing of my first release, I'll actually be an "official" debut this year, so I'll be up on that scary stage at the debut breakfast with all the other '10'ers. Luckily, many of them are already friends, thanks to the ITW Debut and Mentoring programs (Hi, Carla! Hi, Andy!) so it won't be all that terrifying.

Previous Release: A Bad Day for Sorry

Sleep No more by Susan Crandall - Sampling the Thrill

One of many great interviews with authors that you can find each month in The Big Thrill!

In Sleep No More, Susan Crandall has crafted another suspenseful, intriguing romantic suspense epic. Imagine that you are a psychiatrist in a small South Carolina town, just escaped from a marriage to an alcoholic wife with a range of problems beyond your ability to control or cope with. Into your life comes an alluring woman who has innocently stepped into a nest of figurative vipers.

The night was always Abby Whitman's enemy. As a young girl she walked in her sleep, and one night, started a fire that scarred her sister for life and left Abby with unbearable guilt, and a loneliness that echoes within her.

Now Abby has begun blacking out again--with apparently fatal results. A car accident has killed the son of a prominent family. Even though the evidence seems to exonerate her, Abby is plagued by doubts--and soon by mysterious threats. A young psychiatrist, Dr. Jason Coble, is intrigued by Abby and offers to help her explore the dark recesses in her mind. Through this terrifying journey, Jason's interest turns to passion, and he yearns to give her the love she craves. But first, Abby must trust him--and shed light on secrets that will rock this Southern town and reveal a danger that threatens them both.

Sleep No More flows with rhythmic cadence, as the reader becomes immersed in the emotions of the Abby and Jason and the suspense of the fraud threatening to dispose of them before their love can ripen. This is a page-turner that demands your attention. Each of the twists and turns in the story, and the interconnections of the characters, draws you deeper into the story as it plays out on the original manor grounds, including family cemetery and lifeline of the river.

Congratulations Susan on another masterpiece!

I enjoyed reading Sleep No More, and asked Susan a few questions:

What do your find exciting?

I am a pretty calm person. I like excitement to come from vicarious experiences. I like suspense and mystery, which is why I write. In my writing, the suspense is personal to the characters, not police procedure. I am fascinated by what can happen to normal people. As writers, we can find the source materials for stories in the morning paper.

If you were stranded on a deserted island, what one book would you like to have with you and why?

Diane Gabaldon's Outlander. I love her characters.

Romantic Times Book Review says Sleep No More is "A good cozy mystery wrapped in a solid romance... both an easy and riveting read."

You can read more about Susan and her books on her website.

Cym Lowell is an aspiring thriller writer. His next novel is in the hands of his agent (Brenden Daneen of Fineprint Literary in New York) and on its way to publishers. Cym is also an international tax lawyer with expertise in cross-border money movement, and a shelf full of professional treatises on these scintillating subjects.

Find out more about great authors at ThrillerFest 2010!

Shattered by Joan Johnston - Sampling the Thrill

One of many great interviews with authors that you can find each month in The Big Thrill!

Four Lives--Two Great Loves--Every Expectation Shattered. In Joan Johnston's new novel,

nine years ago Kate Grayhawk Pendleton walked into alleged killer Wyatt Shaw's life-and out of it again the next morning. Now Wyatt's back--and

has the power to shatter Kate's future with the man she loves.

"Johnston's characters struggle against seriously deranged foes and fac seeming

insourmountable obstacles to true love." BOOKLIST

"Johnston rivets the reader." Bookreporter.com

Joan Johnston is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of forty-nine novels and novellas with more than ten million copies of her books in print. Joan has been a director of theatre, drama critic, newspaper editor, college professor and attorney on her way to becoming a full-time writer. She has also raised two fairly normal children. Joan lives in Florida and Colorado

Find out more about great authors at ThrillerFest 2010!

Watchlist: A Serial Thriller by Jeffery Deaver - Sample the Thrill

One of many great interviews with authors that you can find each month in The Big Thrill!

Imagine a literary jam session with 22 of your favorite masters of pulse-pounding fiction and you have WATCHLIST: Two Serial Thrillers in One Killer Book. Jeffrey Deaver conceived of the characters and put the plot into motion and Jim Fusilli leant a sharp editorial eye, finely orchestrating this chorus of suspense that includes such top writers as Lee Child, Joseph Finder, Lisa Scottoline, Gayle Lynds, P.J. Parrish and many others. Dramatic tension ties the novellas together as each thriller titan leads the reader down dark alleys and around blind corners, saving the fireworks for the climactic endings, also crafted by Jeffrey Deaver.

The Chopin Manuscript, the original unique collaboration by 15 of the world's greatest thriller writers launched the project. It introduces former war crimes investigator Harold Middleton, who is unaware that a forgotten work by Chopin in his possession contains a dark secret within its handwritten notes. His race to uncover the secret is obstructed by federal agents, assassins and a mysterious figure from the past known only as Faust.

Following closely on the gumshoe heals of The Chopin Manuscript, Harold Middleton returns in the explosive sequel, The Copper Bracelet. Suspense builds layer by layer as each deft teller of tales shifts the action by adding unexpected twists. Beginning with a day at the beach where all is not what it seems, an international terror plot sends Middleton careening from Nice to Moscow to Kashmir as he seeks to prevent nuclear war between India and Pakistan and the start of World War III.

This two-fisted tome has the chills, breakneck pacing, and diabolical switchbacks that thriller lovers have come to expect. Reading into the wee, small hours is practically guaranteed.

Find out more about great authors at ThrillerFest 2010!

Impact, by Douglas Preston - Sampling the Thrill

One of many great interviews with authors that you can find each month in The Big Thrill!

Perhaps best known for his collaborations with Lincoln Child, Douglas Preston is also the author of a series of bestselling thrillers that he writes by himself. His latest one, Impact, begins with an amateur astronomer watching a meteorite fall off the coast of Maine and deciding to try and find it on one of the barrier islands. Throw in Preston's recurring character, Wyman Ford, hired by the government to travel to Cambodia in search of some apparently not-from-earth gemstones, and you have all the makings of another fascinating thriller.

Preston pulls his ideas from disparate sources. "I got the idea many years ago when I was listening to an NPR report about the U.S.'s worldwide network of seismic sensors." They were mostly used to test for clandestine nuclear bomb tests; about twenty years ago they picked up the seismic signature of what looked like a nuclear test in the Australian Outback. "The interesting thing about the seismic signature of a nuclear test is it looks a lot like a meteorite impact." They didn't find anything, but what made everyone nervous at the time was that the site of the seismic event took place on an enormous ranch owned by the Aum Shinrikyo cult best known for releasing sarin gas on the Tokyo subway.Preston took that idea and combined it with a story he'd read in Scientific Americanabout "two unusual seismic events in late 2001 or early 2002. It appeared to scientists that it might have been caused by a particle striking the earth, passing through it, and coming out the other side. They thought this particle might be what is called a 'strangelet' or strange matter, or quark matter--a very strange kind of matter."

In addition, Preston had traveled to Cambodia in the 1990s for a story for National Geographic in search of undiscovered temples that had been uncovered by foliage-penetrating radar on the space shuttle. "I went along, but the problem was, the temple was in Khmer Rouge-held territory. Not only was it very difficult to get to--there were no roads or anything like that--but we had to bring an army with us. It was very exciting."

When asked how his writing process is different when writing novels by himself versus his collaborations with Lincoln Child, Preston says, "It's very different. It's a much lonelier process. As a writer you feel kind of isolated, you have no one to bounce ideas off, really; you are unsure whether you're going in the right direction or not. I would say it's stressful and lonely, but at the same time it's rewarding because it's your own work, for better or worse."

But fear not, Preston/Child fans, the next collaboration featuring Special Agent Pendergast, Fever Dream, is scheduled for May 11, 2010. Of their partnership, Preston says, "Of course, Linc and I complain together. We complain about everything and we congratulate ourselves on what fine fellows we are. It's nice to have a partnership like that."

He described their mutual process as basically one person writing something, then the other person saying how bad it is, then the two of them getting into fights until the publisher demands the manuscript. "When he calls me up and says this chapter really sucks, after I cool off and stop telling him what an idiot he is, I think, this is why we have a writing partnership, to speak the truth to each other. He rewrites and makes me furious, and I rewrite him, and that makes him furious. So he rewrites me and we go back and forth like that getting madder and madder at each other until the publisher starts demanding the manuscript. But for some reason that process works. We end up with something that's better than each of us could have written solo."
To which this writer says, "Mmmmm, maybe." Because both writers' solo novels are awfully damned good. And Impact will demonstrate that, no doubt.

Mark Terry is the author of the Derek Stillwater thriller series. His newest thriller, THE SERPENT'S KISS, is available in stores and online.

Find out more about great authors at ThrillerFest 2010!

Accidental Thriller Writers, Part Two

Thrilleresque authors Julie Compton and Carla Buckley met last July at ThrillerFest 2008 and discovered they had more in common than raising teenagers and driving carpool. Below, they continue the discussion from their May 4 post as to what makes a thriller… a thriller.

CARLA: The very first thing I did when I sold my novel (besides jumping up and down and squealing in a high-pitched voice) was to ask: What is a thriller? You know, since I’d apparently sold one. I’d heard the term, of course, and I knew it was supposed to be a really good thing to be a thriller writer, but I didn’t know exactly what distinguished a thriller from, say, a mystery. So I very casually started poking around. The first definition I got was that a mystery is when the reader doesn’t know who committed the crime until the end; a thriller is when the reader knows who the villain is from the start and reads on to find out if the protagonist will stop him (or "it," since the villain doesn't have to be human) in time. In the case of the book I’d just sold, the villain isn’t human; moreover, the reader knows before cracking open the book exactly who the villain is.

JULIE: I think the jumping up and down and high-pitched squealing is a common occurrence among women writers who learn they've sold their first novel. I wonder what the guys do?

CARLA: Rev a Camaro. Buy cigars.

JULIE: I almost guessed "smoke a cigar," too. We think alike, Carla, have you noticed that? Perhaps they emit a low-pitched growl. Anyway, because my first novel was deemed a legal thriller – and I thought I had a pretty good grasp of that term – I really didn't start investigating the difference between a mystery and a thriller until a few reviews and interviewers referred to my book as a mystery. I started wondering, is my book a mystery? Or is it a thriller? And really, what's the difference? The definitions you found at the beginning of your search were the same ones I found, yet my novel didn't fit neatly into either definition. A legal thriller is simply a different beast. We know to expect lawyers, and we know to expect some sort of showdown in the courtroom, but otherwise, there seems to be a lot of leeway in the structure. I've read legal thrillers that have a murder near the start of the story, which would suggest they are mysteries, yet I can think of others that don't have a murder at all, or, if there is a murder, it occurs later in the plot (like mine) or the characters and reader are unaware of it until later. And then there are those legal thrillers that are more akin to a pure thriller, in that the protagonist is in a race against time to stop the "villain" – yet in many of these, even, neither the characters nor the reader know who the villain is until much later in the novel. Are you following, Carla?

CARLA: Completely. It’s a brilliant analysis. You must have been a killer in the courtroom yourself.

So, shortly after I got that definition and confidently bandied it around a few discussion forums (note to newbie authors: post under pseudonyms until you know what the heck you’re talking about), an author whom I respect said, Oh, is that what you think a thriller is? Which naturally made me stop and say, it’s not? She shook her head. A thriller simply is a book that employs a ticking clock, introduced early on, to add that thrilling, non-stop element. Now you have the protagonist racing against time to stop the villain. So I thought, okay. That makes sense.

JULIE: Are you kidding? I never know what I'm talking about. If I waited until I did, I'd never get to post anything using my real name.

Okay, so let me see if I understand. Your author friend considers a thriller to be any novel that employs a "race against time" (which, of course, adds the "thrilling" aspect to the story)? But she doesn't think it's necessary to know who (or what) the villain is right off the bat?

CARLA: Exactly. Think The Da Vinci Code. That clock is ticking so loudly you can hear it from across the room.

JULIE: I think I like that way of looking at it. It allows for a broader spectrum of structures when considering what constitutes a thriller. For example, in my second novel (which is not a legal thriller – I'm sure of that, at least), my protagonist is most definitely in a race against time to save his girlfriend's life, yet he doesn't know until later whom, exactly, he's fighting against. Hmm, I wonder if this makes it a quasi-mystery?

CARLA: Eek. Do NOT throw other terms into the blender. I’m confused enough.

So now I had two definitions, but which one was right? It seemed sort of urgent that I find out. After all, I’d signed a two-book contract. Before I began writing the second one, I thought I’d better have a firm grasp of what it was I was supposed to be writing.

Accordingly, I consulted The Oracle (aka, writer's blogs) and came across yet another definition that sounded pretty good: a mystery has the welfare of one person at stake; in a thriller, many people are threatened. I breathed a huge sigh of relief, because in my book, the entire planet’s at risk.

I have such a great villain. Too bad it comes with mucus.

JULIE: Oh, but it's the mucus that makes it such a great villain!

I've also heard that definition, but I think it's too limiting. Many thrillers are based upon a threat to only one or two people. Most often the threatened are loved ones of the protagonist. Think about Harlan Coben's Tell No One.

CARLA: Glad you like the mucus. It’s hard to write good mucus.

Anyway, I know what you mean. If we narrow the scope too much, then it excludes many books that by all accounts are considered thrillers. But I still think it’s a valid observation. When you’re talking about a threat that targets more than a single person, when the welfare of a community, or even the world, hangs in the balance – well, that’s pretty thrilling. It’s definitely not a mystery in that case, right?

JULIE: Agreed. That kind of book is most definitely a thriller. But so many others can also be considered thrillers, I think, that don't fit that particular definition. The more the merrier, I say.

CARLA: And that’s exactly why I like you. You’re like a party waiting to happen. Throw the margarita mix into the blender and throw open the doors. Everyone’s welcome!

JULIE: Just like ThrillerFest!

I think what I've come to decide is that there really is no one-size-fits-all definition for the term "thriller."

CARLA: Maybe determining what constitutes a thriller doesn’t really matter to authors. We write what we write. Maybe what really matters is how the sales teams position the books they are entrusted with and where the bookstores ultimately shelve them. One of my author friends wrote a mystery which she found shelved in the romance section of her local bookstore. She was upset, because she felt her readership wouldn’t be able to find her, but then she ended up winning a RWA award that year.

But that’s a story for another post…

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Julie Compton is the author of the legal thriller, TELL NO LIES (St. Martin's Minotaur 2008), which is also published in the UK, the Netherlands and Spain. Her second novel, RESCUING OLIVIA, will be released in February 2010.

Carla Buckley is the author of OUT OF THIN AIR, coming from Bantam Dell in 2010. She is currently at work on her second Bantam Dell novel, INVISIBLE. Both books will also be released in Germany and the UK.

Accidental Thriller Writers

Authors Julie Compton and Carla Buckley went along for years, thinking they were misunderstood. Knowing there was something missing. And then they bumped into each other at ThrillerFest 2008 and found out there was something else just as unusual as they were: their novels. Here they talk about that fateful meeting and what it meant for their writing careers.

Julie: I began to have creeping doubts about whether I belonged at ThrillerFest as soon as I checked in and was on the way to my room. Badge around my neck so others could identify me as a fellow conference-goer, I stepped onto the elevator at the same time as several other attendees. (I knew this because they, too, had ITW badges around their necks.) As I would later learn, thriller writers are a friendly bunch, and in keeping with this tradition, the group began to introduce themselves to one another. A gentleman near the back wall of the elevator extended his hand and said, "Hi, I'm David Morrell. I'm one of the founders of International Thriller Writers." I, in turn, introduced myself and explained that I was a debut author and it was my first time at the conference. In other words, I gave him a pleasant response as I would any person I'd just met.

So you can imagine my horror when I got up to my room, started flipping through the conference brochure, and discovered that the man I'd just met in the elevator was none other than the David Morrell, author of FIRST BLOOD (the novel in which Rambo was created) and many, many other novels. He is often referred to as the father of modern action novels.

But I didn't know this, because until my publisher categorized my novel as a legal thriller, I hadn't read many thrillers, or even many mysteries. (Unless you count the Nancy Drew books, of which I've read all, many times over.) Sure, I'm a lawyer, so I'd read Turow and Grisham and the like, but I simply wasn't familiar with some of the big names as most thriller writers are.

Now, I'm sure Mr. Morrell doesn't even remember this encounter (at least I hope he doesn't), but after a long weekend spent schmoozing with both chart-topping authors and debut authors like myself, I'm convinced that even if he reads this now, he'll forgive me my ignorance for not realizing just who it was I was meeting in that elevator. Why? Because above everything else I learned at ThrillerFest – and I learned a lot – I learned that no matter who you are, what you read, what you write, how many books you've written, how many books you've sold, and how well-known you are (or aren't), you're still welcomed with open arms into the ITW family.

Carla: Now, see, practically all I read are thrillers. I have to be force-fed anything that doesn’t have blood or death or a kidnapping by the end of chapter one. I blame this on Nancy Drew. She just dove right in. She didn’t listen to her dad, and she certainly didn’t listen to her boyfriend. By the time I was eleven, I was ready for the hardcore stuff – Ngaio Marsh. People died in her novels. Fortunes were stolen. Crimes were committed. I was a goner.

When it came time for me to write my own books, it made perfect sense to write what I’d always read. And of course I had to go to writers’ conventions, schmooze with my idols, suck up to every editor and agent who had the misfortune to cross my path.

Along the way, I found the agent of my dreams and stalked her until she gave up and sent me a contract. Back then, you could get away with a little stalking. Now they lock you up. She submitted my novel, then my next. And the one after that. The fifth one sold (or was it the tenth?) and the first words out of her mouth were, “You should join ITW, and if you can, go to ThrillerFest.”

Well, of course I could. Thriller writers are My People. We understand you have to have a lot of scary to make a person really feel alive. The scarier the better, and just I’d written a scary book. In fact, it was so scary, some editors were afraid to touch it. Seriously. They were.

So I registered for ThrillerFest, figured out which airport to land in, and practiced hailing a cab (no small feat in cornfield, Ohio.) I had my list of authors I wanted to ogle. I was meeting my editor for the first time. I was reuniting with my agent. It was going to be great.

Until my editor told me she wasn’t certain that what I’d written was a thriller.

Julie: So you thought you'd written a thriller, and your editor said you might not have, and I thought I'd written a "relationship-y" book about love, lawyers, and betrayal, and my editor said I'd written a legal thriller. Hmm . . .

Carla: Well, I should’ve seen it coming. My agent had said the same thing when she first read the manuscript, but I just clapped my hands over my ears. I’m not listening. But then we started getting feedback about how scary it was. Doesn’t that say thriller to you? And it sold and apparently it wasn’t a thriller. Very confusing.

Julie: Scary? Yes, that does say thriller to me. But it was exactly this "confusion" that sparked our friendship, I think, don't you?

Carla: That, and our winning personalities.

Julie: Well, of course, that too. It was the second night of the conference, and the debut authors had dinner together at . . . do you remember the name of the restaurant?

Carla: All I remember was I paid twenty bucks for a diet Coke.

Julie: I think I shared my appetizer with you, didn't I? Anyway, I had the good fortune to plop myself down right next to you, and I'll never forget your first words to me after telling me your name: "I'm not really supposed to be here."

Carla: You didn’t plop. You slid very gracefully onto the hard vinyl bench. And I wasn’t supposed to be there. I was party-crashing. Just minutes before, I bumped into Karen Dionne outside the Random House opening reception and she immediately invited me to join the debut authors that evening. I was next year’s class, which is actually now this year’s class, but since my publication date’s been moved into 2010, I had to move, too, and I’m now in next year’s class. Stay with me, Julie. You haven’t dozed off, have you?

So when you appeared beside me, looking so friendly and totally together and genuine, I thought I’d better let you know I was an imposter.

Julie: I'm not so sure about that "totally together" part, but I immediately identified with the sentiment, because like I said, I wasn't really sure if I was supposed to be there, either. We began to talk, and we discovered we had much more in common than an "author identity crisis." We're both stay at home moms with two kids . . .

Carla: Actually, I have three kids. It’s hard for me to keep count of them, too.

And, please. You are totally together.

Once we started talking about our kids and the fact that we both used to do something other than drive carpool and make cupcakes for the bake sale, we definitely clicked. Plus we had both moved away from the places we considered home: me from the East Coast to the Midwest, and you from the Midwest to the East coast. So we knew a little bit about making homes away from home, and feeling like outsiders. But when I confided to you that I’d been told my book might have more in common with Jodi Picoult and Anita Shreve, than the thriller writers I’d been worshiping, you lit up. Christmas had come to Times Square (which was actually ten blocks away, but you get the idea.)

Julie: Three kids? Really? I knew that. I meant to say, we have two kids the same age . . .

But yes, it's true. I did light up, and I don't even smoke. After all, my publisher described my novel as part Scott Turow, part Jodi Picoult. For the first time I started to think, hey, maybe I do belong here. Maybe a novel doesn't have to have explosions and car chases and Bruce Willis waiting to play the lead in the screenplay in order to qualify as a thriller. (Because I've been told Patrick Dempsey aka McDreamy would make a much better Jack – the protagonist of my novel.)

Carla: See what I mean about her being so together? She’s already talking McDreamy for the movie.

Julie: Well, when people first suggested him, I wasn't sure. After all, Jack is fair-haired. But if accepting Jack as tall, dark and handsome instead of tall, fair and handsome is the price for seeing my story on the big screen, I'm willing to pay.

Carla: Smart girl. Anyway, I was hugely relieved to find someone who not only knew what the Picoult/Shreve reference meant, but actually thought that it was a good thing. All of sudden, I began to think that maybe it was okay my novel didn’t have car chases and explosions in it (it does have some mucus, but I suppose that doesn’t count.) Maybe it was cool to be Thrilleresque. That was us: we were Thrilleresque.

Julie: Thrilleresque! I love it! I think we're starting a new sub-genre. If David Morrell is the father of modern action novels, maybe Carla Buckley and Julie Compton can be the mothers of modern chick-thrillers.

Carla: I like how you put my name first. See why I like this girl…chick, I mean. Julie is definitely chick material. She has a motorcycle. I have a minivan. I long to be a chick. Chicks read thrillers and Picoult; they write thrillers a la Shreve. They go to ThrillerFest and start a little something.

Julie: Some say write what you know, but I prefer to know what I write. When I started my second novel and decided to make my protagonist a biker, I figured I'd better learn how to ride. And then, once I learned how to ride, I figured I needed a bike. You see where this is going . . .

But I think what we're trying to say is, you can't always be sure what you've written. And when that's the case, listen to your agent and your editor when they tell you that your novel is – if not a pure thriller – Thrilleresque. Otherwise, you might not have the opportunity to attend ThrillerFest and strike up a friendship with a cool chick like Carla. (And yes, Carla, you most definitely qualify as a cool chick.)

Check back when Thrilleresque writers Carla and Julie return to discuss: What IS a thriller, anyway? Stay tuned.


UPDATE: For those who'd like to post a comment and want to maintain a little anonymity (we're thrilleresque writers--we like a little scary), you don't have to sign in. Simply select OPEN ID and type in the name you'd like to appear as (this could be your pet's name and we'd never know...)

Julie Compton is the author of the legal thriller, TELL NO LIES (St. Martin's Minotaur 2008). Her second novel, tentatively titled RESCUING OLIVIA, will be released by St. Martin's in February 2010. TELL NO LIES is also published in the UK, the Netherlands and Spain.

Carla Buckley is the author of OUT OF THIN AIR, coming from Bantam Dell in May 2010. She is currently at work on her second Bantam Dell novel, INVISIBLE. Both books will also be released in Germany and the UK.

Interview with Literary Agent Stephany Evans

Last year marked a bold experiment at ThrillerFest 2008. Basically, The Powers That Be wondered what would happen when approximately forty agents are thrown into a room with a horde of ravenous authors searching for The One Who Will Represent Me.

In order to determine if the experiment was a success, we tracked down one of the survivors -- uh, participants, Stephany Evans. Here is what she had to say to ITW Debut Author Jennie Bentley (FATAL FIXER-UPPER; SPACKLED AND SPOOKED) about her experiences:

Jennie Bentley: You attended Thrillerfest/Agentfest last year, right? Was that your first time?

Stephany Evans: Yes, last year was the first Agentfest (at Thrillerfest) I've attended.

JB: Will you be attending again this year? If not, sometime in the future?

SE: I'm not scheduled to attend this year, but wouldn't rule it out for the future. Thrillers aren't a key category for me, but I do represent mysteries and am interested in romantic suspense. I haven't really found a great deal that has grabbed me yet, but both of those are categories that Thrillerfest attracts - along with numerous other sub categories that could very broadly be called "thrillers."

JB: Why did you decide to attend last year?

SE: Well, really to "Talent Scout." There was certainly talent there, but the question is always to find the great writer who wants to write (or has written) the story one personally wants to read. When I signed on to do Agentfest, on my bio I wrote "glitz OK" - or something like that. I'm open to those big glitzy international scurries, through fabulous settings, whether it be an escape or a race to save one's corner of the world. But nobody pitched me anything like that. And certainly I was open to other things as well. I'm probably not the right agent, though, for super violent stories (no serial killers) or stories about killer viruses. And it'd be unusual for me to fall for something that didn't have a female protagonist (though this has happened) but generally, I try to keep an open mind and see what might catch my fancy.

JB: Did you have fun?

SE: I generally have a little fun among so many authors and agents. It's always nice to spend time with friends.

JB: Did you sign any new authors as a result of attending?

SE: Not this time.

JB: Do you have any tips for aspiring writers when it comes to putting their best feet forward at the pitch sessions?

SE: The best advice I can give is to just try to be relaxed. Many authors stress themselves out about sitting in front of an agent and it's not necessary. Definitely prepare what you want to convey, but remember to breathe. It'll go a lot more smoothly if you simply prepare well and then just tell us about your story. This is guessing, but it seems to me that some authors get so keyed up about how to convey their story that they say to themselves, "Oh the heck with it. I'll just wing it." I actually don't recommend this. Practicing your pitch will always make you feel more comfortable about your ability to deliver it, and thereby make you more relaxed.

Secondly, authors should remember to keep it brief. It's helpful if they can just initially give a log line - a single sentence that conveys the concept - and then expand that to about the length of pitch that could be containged in a single page letter. In this type of situation agents are hearing pitch after pitch after pitch. We can't even take in all the info contained in the "5-page synopsis" version. Our eyes will glaze, our brains will implode (you can't see it, but that's what's happening inside the skull). It's seriously painful and you won't be asked to send your work. Just hook the agent quickly - if s/he wants to hear more, s/he'll ask.

JB: Any tips for how to get the most out of Thrillerfest when attending, in other ways?

SE: I'm not really qualified to answer this since I only attended the pitch session, but I know there are lots of groovy things to do. Here's a general tip for any conference - familiarize yourself with the program early on. Can't tell you how often I've missed something neat that was happening on the first day or first few hours because I didn't get a chance to read the sked til later.

JB: Did anything especially fun/interesting/horrible/awesome happen to you at Thrillerfest, that would make a good story?

SE: In the fun category... Barbara Vey stopped by the table to say hello. I read her PW blog "Beyond her book" when I get the chance so that was neat to say hi in person.

In the horrible/awesome category... Well, make that the awesomely horrible category... The pitch sessions were held in a long, low-ceilinged ballroom - picture rows of small tables, from end to end, in this crowded room. Each table has an agent sitting at it with one person sitting opposite, and a line of a few people behind that person. There were about 40 agents and a couple hundred authors. The session moderator had in his hand a very loud brass bell, supposedly "the real bell from the TV show McGyver." OK. I confess. I've never watched McGyver. But this is the bell and that's meaningful to large numbers of the assembled, I have to assume. This bell was used to announce the conclusion of each pitch session. When it rang, it was time for the person seated to move on and the next person would sit. The moderator with his McGyver bell was standing directly in front of me. So I was getting the full brunt of the McGyver bell, every few minutes, when it was rung loudly enough to be heard at both ends of the room. In between rings I was to focus on the new person's story, often told either haltingly or in excessive detail. We had been given glasses of water - but no Exedrin to go with it. A very long couple hours.

JB: So there you have it. Huge thanks to Stephany for taking the time out to answer our questions. We really appreciate it. And although she won't be at Agentfest this year, she's accepting queries at her office. If you've written a glitzy international scurry, or something else you think she might like, feel free to visit her website, FinePrint Literary Management, for submission guidelines.

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Thank you, Jennie and Stephany, for sharing, and we hope to see both of you at future ThrillerFests!

-- Introduction written by ITW Debut Author Jeannie Holmes (CRIMSON SWAN).